Party time ahead!

[wiseheart]

Well, yes, dear folks, it's this time of the year again. The big, one-week virtual party from today to the 9th of October starts here. Come on in, be welcome, make yourself comfortable, and post a comment. May we have many collapsed threads again!

Last year we had 559 comments on 4 pages, which is an impressive record to break. But I have an excellent apple pie in the oven, and offer a virtual slice to every party guest.

Let's party!

Addition: someone asked for the apple pie recipe. Here it is, behind the cut.


400 gr wheat flour
200 gr butter or margarine
200 gr sugar
1/10 litre sour cream
1 pinch of salt
ground peel of 1/lemon
2 gr baking soda

For the filling:
2 kg apples
sugar,cinnamon, cardamom, vanilla and ground lemon peel as you like

One eggyolk for painting the top.

How to make it?
1) Make a dough from abovementioned ingredients.
2) Cut it in two equal pieces. Roll out one piece, lay it into a baking tin (baking paper under it is helpful).
3) Spread some dried bread crubms all over it.
4) Peel and plane (slice???) the apples, press out the juice with your hands (it shouldn't be too dry, though) and mix them with the spices.
5) Spread the apples over the dough.
6) Roll out the other half of the dough. Cover the apples with it.
7) Paint the top with eggyolk and bake it in a pre-heated oven, on 200°C for twenty minutes.
8) Cut it when it's cooled down.

Sorry, but I had to use the metric system. My brain doesn't work in cups and pounds and that stuff. I hope you can still figure out how much you need from the ingredients.



Addition: I also wish to gift upon my dear party guests a birthday-present, Hobbit-style: Chapter 03 - Puer Natus Est Nobis of my Cadfael fic "Sparrows" has just been posted to hiddenrealms and to FF.Net. Enjoy!

And the end results are: 735 comments on 6 pages! It's more than I could have dreamed of, and I thank you - all of you - who contributed to this record. It will be a hard one to break next year indeed, but I hope you'll be back. :)

Thanks again, I had a fantastic time and met great new people - it was fun!

Comments

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

This should be FLC-26 and if the theory is correct it should start a new page... Oh, the suspense!

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

You were right - a new page it is. Hooray for science! :-)

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

Hooray for science indeed! I should really get myself one of these shouldn't I?

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Snerk - it's most suitable!

OK, I couldn't help it, had to check out all of these. What did you think of the Movie Narrative Charts Poster? *g*

PS: This was comment #200 - YAY!

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I love it! It starts out as a very helpful way of keeping track of what is going on in Lord of the Rings (though I have to stop myself from complaining that it is wrong where it deviates from the books; somehow I keep editing that in my head) and then just gets silly with the 12 Angry Men panel. I have actual had quite serious discussions with friends about how the panel for Primer isn't confused enough... :D

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

It's a wonderfully crazy idea. *g*

In fact the whole website is a hoot - thanks so much for the link!

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

Oh, I am always happy to convert more people to xkcd (do I dare hope?) fans! There are occasional strips that I don't understand at all, and I am sure there is usually something I don't fully get in any given strip, but that is just the perfect excuse to go and find out isn't it? More learning! Yay! \o/

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

>>strips that I don't understand at all<<

Yep, came across quite a few of those - I'm glad it's not just me! ;-)

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I have a suspicion that Randall Munroe (the artist/author) would be very disappointed if people understood all of his comic strips. He seems quite geeky and like he enjoys making people go in search of more information.

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

>>he enjoys making people go in search of more information.<<

A day when one learns something new is never wasted.

I've bookmarked the site for future fun reads.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

A day when one learns something new is never wasted.

I do try to keep this in mind when I have frustrating days at work not understanding what is going on...

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Excellent experiment!

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

It doesn't quite come up to this in coolness factor, but I try! :-)

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Hah! Friend of mine (science teacher) was doing demonstrations at a science fair last week. A kid declares, "You are NOT a scientist you are a WIZARD doing MAGIC. doitagainplease"

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

That reminds me of this Arthur C. Clarke quote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is undistinguishable from magic". I had to look up the originator, but now that I think about it it seems obvious that it is by Clarke. When I was demonstrating a superconductivity lab -- in which a small magnet is made to levitate over a superconductor -- for undergraduates I have been known to incant "Wingardium Leviosa!".

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Hah, I think I would like your demonstrations!

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I have always said if you can't have fun with science you aren't doing it right! :-)

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Aaand we have the chance to go over 300 comments today. If I've counted correctly, this one should be #295!

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

We have already! This (unless someone posts in the next couple of seconds) is comment 303. :-)

[lhun-dweller.livejournal.com]

Mac is currently "partying" with his rubber bone. No chocolate for him (Very Bad for dogs!), but perhaps someone would slip him a bit of cheese or a crust from Wiseheart's pie?

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Good morning.

Doing good so far: on page 2 already and 170 comments - that's not bad.

It's a real autumn day here today: rainy, windy, leaves all over the place. In other words, a good day for staying indoors with my computer and a mug of tea. :-)

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Which is a lovely way to spend the day, isn't it? If I've counted correctly, this ought to be comment #185, and we're on page 2 - go us! The best part is, that there are actually interesting discussions in many long threads, not just token comments to bounce up the counts!

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

*pours you a cup of steaming hot tea*

I've given up reading all of the posts - there are so many already!

***

Apropos nothing, I'm currently trying to draft an overview of the history of Doriath, which is easy enough, and to get a feel for its people, which is turning out to be much trickier! For some reason Melian and Elu Thingol just don't appeal to me, but of course there are so many other characters so I'm quite enjoying myself. Saeros, for one, is very interesting - it's such a relief to find an Elf that was obviously NOT a nice guy! In fact I just wrote a catty little snippet about Amdir and Saeros. hehe

Tolkien, tea and party on LJ - what more can a fanficcer wish for? *g*

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I think part of the problem must be the characterization of Thingol by the Professor - he's portrayed as quite the bully, without showing the fact that he was actually worried about his daughter. Who wouldn't have been? Her falling in love with a *mortal* fugitive of questionable origins - beacuse why should Beren's ancestry mean *anything* for Thingol?

Also, Lúthien is clearly a fairytale character (Rapunzel anyone?) so it's quite hard to identify with her. And Melian, it seems to me, doesn't cope well with being permanently incarnated. That she doesn't understand what Doriath means to Thingol is clearly shown by the fact that as soon as he's dead, she flees back to Valinor, instead of keep protecting his realm for him.

Now, Saeros - that's a villain I've always cheered for. Of course, the fact that I abysmally despise Túrin must have played a role in that. *g*

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Melian must have loved Elu very much - it's hard to imagine a Maia with an Elf - which, I agree with you, makes it that much worse that she just abandoned Doriath to its fate. A lot of people died because of her decision; but then a Maia may not see death the same way we do... :-/

Yes, despite being a class A jerk, Saeros is actually quite refreshing. I think all who read 'Children of Húrin' felt like saying a few choice words to Túrin! *g*

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I know it from serious sources that there are people who actually *like* Túrin! Go figure!

When I read the - ungodly long and unnecessarily detailed - story about him, I was cheering on Mím, Saeros, the outlaws, the dragon... every single one who might have the chance to kill him. Alas, no such luck.

Now Tuor - that was a Man of my own taste!

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

>>I was cheering on Mím, Saeros, the outlaws, the dragon... every single one who might have the chance to kill him. Alas, no such luck.<<

LMAO! Well, I'll admit it would take a very special kind of patience to like him.

Tuor - yes, a whole other ballgame. And it's not as if he didn't go through a rough time, too.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. Aside from what he suffered *before* getting to Gondolin, can you imagine what it must have been, being the son-in-law of Turgon?

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Oh dear, yes! That would be a punishment in itself. *g*

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Gah! Imagine the horrors! I found the description of the seven gates of Gondolin awesome, and I adore Glorfindel beyond measure, but Turgon... brrrr!

And we haven't even mentioned Eöl and Maeglin then!

[amongst-elves.livejournal.com]

The in-laws from hell! *g*

And Tuor only killed one of them. Shows great restraint, IMO.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

That man must have had the patience of a saint!

[rcfinch.livejournal.com]

This bodes well - we've reached the second page. Unfortunately, I won't be able to make many comments today, as I'll be away the rest of the day.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Since we've got six more days, you don't need to worry about that. ;)

[rcfinch.livejournal.com]

Though I'm not feeling well - really bad cold - I'm not sick enough not to post. (My, that's a lot of nots... but no doubt you'll get the gist of it.)

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Awww, sorry to hear that - get better, soon! I used to have a bit of a cold a week or so ago; now I'm working to long hours for the germs to survive. They've got a healthy sense of self-preservation, I guess, coz they've fled my system during the recent week. ;)

[maglors-finch.livejournal.com]

That's it - tomorrow, I'm going to work harder!

[katlinel.livejournal.com]

Oooh, is it that time of year again already? Happy birthday to you! The leaves are falling and beginning to pile up in heaps on the ground, we've made and eaten our first stew of the season, and very good it was too, I'm pulling out my winter jumpers again, and it's also the perfect time of year for pie! It's a lovely time to have a birthday and I hope that this year's is an exceptionally good one for you.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Thanks. :) A good year would be nice, after the last one. But as Mum says, as long as we still have our health, we can actually deal with everything.

[lhun-dweller.livejournal.com]

I know I've said it before, but Mum's a wise woman!

[lhun-dweller.livejournal.com]

And her daughter is pretty darned clever, too! [grin]

[scifimimi.livejournal.com]

Happy Birthday! *bakes a cake*

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Tell me how it turned out. ;)

[raspberryfool.livejournal.com]

Happy Birthday, the apple pie was lovely. Mmmmm :-)

(I was directed here by the good lady Altariel, btw).

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Glad you liked the apple pie. Despite what Hobbits might say, "water hot" isn't the only "noble thing" out there. Nor are mushrooms. There's always apple pie to consider.

[lhun-dweller.livejournal.com]

And if it involves apple pie, I am always available to consider it...

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I think we both need an apple pie icon.

Actually, the main reason why I start begging for an anonymous benefactor every february is because with a paid account I can keep my wonderful icons. There's never enough icons, I find.

BTW,Gemma got me "The Tale of the Heike", just FYI. Two of it would be serious overkill. ;)

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I think you could quickly persuade hobbits of that! And they might find a special apple pie song in its (and your) honour!

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Oooh, I wish someone would write *that* song! I'd be tempted to write the complementary Hobbit story to it. With old Missus Crabtree from "Elf-root" as the main character, perhaps.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

We need edge_of_ruin!

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

You think you could talk her into it? That would be fantastic. We could use Bilbo and the whole elder generation of hobbits out of The Hobbit, and perhaps some of the more obscue ones from HoMe - it would be a whopper!

[jen-rock.livejournal.com]

Happy pre-birthday! Oooooh, apple pie! Sounds great.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Have a slice!

[rcfinch.livejournal.com]

What do you do if you run out of apple pie?

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Run out of apple pie?!? 0_O

*rolls a barrel of apples into Soledad's kitchen*

Disaster averted! *g*

[maglors-finch.livejournal.com]

That's a lot of apples... and a lot of peeling... what about raspberry pie, or something?

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

No prob, Mum helps peeling. That speeds up the process considerably.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Do we not have some friendly and tireless Elf-lords who will peel the apples for us?

[maglors-finch.livejournal.com]

I'm sure Finrod is friendly enough to lend a hand.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

If Feanor glared at them, they'd probably unpeel themselves.

[maglors-finch.livejournal.com]

Some of them.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

That's one thing that could actually make me *like* Feanor... and there aren't many such thing. Imagine that: him, sitting in the kitchen, apple peels falling off in horror, apples bursting into tiny pieces and hiding in the dough - hell he'd even be able to bake the pie with his spirit of fire.

hides under the kitchen table from enraged Silmficcers

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Who would ever have guessed he'd make such a handy household appliance?!

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Heh! Imagine if we could bring Morgoth down with apple pie. Balrogs sitting around the fire, keeping it alive, and Orcs waiting impatiently for their bite of pie.

After all, apples led to the loss of Paradise for mankind, they can as well make up for that loss with something else than just being delicious.

The above comment was from Gildor. I'd never think of anything so blasphemic in my life, but Gildor is one embittered Elf-Lord... has been ever since Celebrimbor bought the farm.

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Can't really blame Gildor for being a wee bit miffed. :-(

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

No, we can't really, can we? The poor sod, had to wait five thousand or so years to be reunited with his fiery smith. :(

I'm really mean to my poor characters sometimes.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

We'll need more first level comments to get to the next page. We must reach 5 this year, I think that would be a reasonable agenda. So, in the spirit of development, I hereby start a new topic: tell me about your favourite book. Or about one of your favourite books.

I could name "The Hobbit" in this place, but that would be glaringly obvious, I think. So I'll name my second favourite. Strangely enough, it's a children's book as well, titled "Island-blue" (my translation), written by the excellent Hungarian writer Magda Szabó. It's about love and loss and talking animals... very, very cute. I read it at the age of 22, I think, and I bawled like a baby, despite the happy end.

[maglors-finch.livejournal.com]

The Silmarillion is also glaringly obvious, but I'm going to mention it anyway. If opera's are allowed I'd say Götterdämmerung.

But *scratches head* that's a lot of doom and gloom, and this is a birthday celebration. I may have to rethink this.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

There's nothing wrong with a little doom and gloom, although personally, I detest Wagner. I'm not much of an opera fan as a whole. Now, Bach's pieces for the organ, or his cantatas, that's something for this girl.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

"Götterdämmerung the Cheery Bits Version"? Might not be very long, though.

[maglors-finch.livejournal.com]

Act One, scene Two (and a half).

[altariel.livejournal.com]

lol

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Discounting The Lord of the Rings as too obvious, I'll say The Dispossessed by Ursula Le Guin. It's the perfect science fiction book. Or else The Far Side of Evil by Sylvia Engdahl, a YA science fiction book with a brave and smart female lead and lots of sociology. (My icon is from the cover of the recent hardback reissue.)

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I voted for The Lord of the Rings in the BBC Big Read search for our favourite book. In this setting I will agree it is overly obvious, though.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Sometimes being obvious isn't such a bad thing, though.
One of my deepest regrets is that the Professor never found the time to write the entire Tuor cycle, with Gondolin and stuff. What little is there in the Unfinished Tales is simply amazing - and then it just stops, and I could cry in frustration.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I'd love to see a version of that like the recent Children of Hurin.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Yeah, me, too. Actually, I'd prefer it to the Children of Húrin, since I absolutely detest Túrin. Not a popular thing to state, I know, but it's the truth.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Túrin's story got me when I was an angsty teenager. I do love the story, but boy it's depressing. And we were saying that Le Guin was the depressing one!

Túrin melodrama

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Well, my half-successful attempts to dig myself through the Sil were around the age of 30 or so, and I always found the whole lTúrin stuff too much melodrama for my taste. And too close to the Rheingold saga. Some parts of it almost sound like bad fanfic.

*ducks from flying rotten potatoes*

So sorry, but the Sil sometimes brings the worst out of me. I like to connect with my heroes, and the bombastic style just won't let me. It makes me feel like the adventurous lad in Hungarian folk tales who has to eat himself through a mountain of porridge, just to get on his way.

Re: Túrin melodrama

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I like to connect with my heroes

I have the same problem with much of The Silmarillion. I never found my way to the "heart" of the Elven stories. The stories about the Men were the bits that really moved me. Actually, it's the "Narn i Hin Hurin" from Unfinished Tales that really got me into the story of Turin, and there's much more there to allow a reader to connect to him and his family, particularly with the death of Lalaith.

Re: Túrin melodrama

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I love Elven stories... but those of the Second, and even more of the Third Age. Elrond, Celebrimbor, Gildor, Gil-galad, and, before all else, Thranduil and his family. Not so much into the Noldor of the First Age, myself. Especially Galadriel.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

To my shame I have yet to find the time to read The Silmarillion. I have read bits, but not all of it. It still impresses me the range of different writing styles that Tolkien could employ, from children's bed-time stories in Bilbo, through an epic novel in The Lord of the Rings to myths in Silmarillion.

Edited to fix html-code -- again! I don't seem to be doing to well with it today...

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Frankly, I don't think I've ever read the Silm as a whole. I read bits and pieces of it, but as a whole... the pompous style gets on my nerves every single time. Personally, I much prefer the Unfinished Tales and HoMe, even though one can't read them as books on their own.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

Cycling home from work I came up with what I think is an excellent plan for dealing with this: I like reading, and when I was younger I always read a bit in bed before going to sleep. I had to stop this practice because I wasn't very good at keeping it to a little bit and ended up not going to sleep until far too late and then either being very tired at work the next morning or just coming in very late. Recently I found a book of short short-stories that my sister-in-law's mother gave me for Christmas last year and I have been allowing myself one of these each evening when I get to bed before midnight. I now only have two left, so I need something else with short texts that I will be able to stop reading. From what people tell me of and my own very limited foray into The Silmarillion this should fit the bill. :-)

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

I really need to finish reading UT and those volumes of HOME that I have, especially as I got two more volumes recently second hand - just came across them on one of the market stalls that sell random books. :D

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I was really pleased it won, one in the eye for all the literati who insisted it was rubbish!

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

Me too! Somebody asked me at the time (since they knew I enjoyed the Harry Potter books) whether I was disappointed that didn't win. I really wasn't and was a bit surprised that I had to explain that while Rowling's books are a good read and quite fun, they are not great literature on the scale of Tolkien, Lee and Austen.

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

It seems like too many people can't understand the difference between enjoying something and thinking that it is good. Personally for books, I think that the best of them are both, but there is always a place for fun books to read lightly and for fun, as well as a place for book that aren't much fun to read but a 'great' or something in terms literature - like the kind of books that make people think or learn. :)

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

Frivolous isn't a bad thing, but as you say the best books are the ones that are enjoyable to read and make us think and learn. What upsets me even more than people not realizing you might just read a book for fun is when they assume just because people enjoy reading something it isn't "good literature". There are of course books that are never going to be fun to read -- from a recent discussion with other friends Kafka springs to mind as an obvious example -- because of subject matter for example, but I always remember a bit in one of the later Dorothy Sayers books where Harriet says she tries to put in things to make people think when they aren't looking. If it is obviously there to make you learn something I think that is often bad writing.

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

It depends on the book with learning, for example if I pick up a historical novel set in a period that I know little about or a mystery set around something I don't know, I would feel disappointed if I didn't feel like I had learnt quite a bit from it. But in general, I agree. :)

Although, I also recall a book that really annoyed me, because it was a mystery that left a clue out commenting that it was too obvious to state, which I didn't manage to work out until after the end of the book.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I certainly don't object to learning things from books -- it is my preferred method of finding anything out after all. What I meant (and didn't state very clearly) is that if something is obviously in a book/text just to teach you something then that is laziness on the author's part, unless he/she is writing a text book.

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Totally agree. Sorry I misunderstood before - possibly due to too much typing in so many conversations at the same time (but it is so much fun)! :D

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I think I was being unclear, but I can certainly relate to the too much typing in too many threads at once bit as well. It is great fun, isn't it? So many people talking about so many good books so intelligently at the same time -- my favourite kind of party!

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

It is a wonderful party, and so much fun to have so many people talking about all these books. :)

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

It is but I must go soon; I am still at work running some experiments but they are finishing and I should get home and have some dinner...

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Aww. I'm sure the party will still be here when you get back. ;)

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

It certainly seems so! :-)

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Welcome back. :)

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Realised that I missed replying to this in my first comment:

What upsets me even more than people not realizing you might just read a book for fun is when they assume just because people enjoy reading something it isn't "good literature".

Very true! :)

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

I was happy about that as well, especially as if I recall correctly I thought that there were too many books on the list that people thought were good rather than actually enjoyed reading (both of which I think should be taken into account).

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Yes, a sort of, "Hmm, well, I suppose I'd better vote for Ulysses, not that I got past the first ten pages..." ;-)

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Yes.

Because people believe it when they are told that a book is great literature and if they don't like it, it is their ignorance/lack of education. (Of course, this isn't all people, just sadly too many, although enough people voted for LotR for it to win). :)

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Yes, it was great to see a book win because people loved that book. I watched a lot of BBC documentaries around the time the Big Read was on, with many critics being stuffy about things - and then an interviewer would get them to talk about what they read when they were fourteen and fifteen, and their whole demeanours would change: eyes sparkling, talking excitedly. Back when they were not self-conscious about reading. Very interesting.

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Wow! That is very interesting. :)

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Yeah, yeah, I didn't count LOTR either, since that's the A and O of all books - even though I might like "The Hobbit" just a bit better... on a purely emotional level. That was the book I fell in love with first, with Elrond, who's as kind as summer, with the gorgeous Elvenking, with Gandalf, Balin the Dwarf, and first and foremost Bilbo.

I don't know that particular Ursula Le Guin book. Is it SF or fantasy? That it would be absolutely brilliant and deeply depressing is without question, right?

[altariel.livejournal.com]

The Dispossessed is about a physicist who lives on an anarchist world who is being pressured not to work with people from a capitalist world. It's about his journey to that world, and what happens when he gets there, with his life story told in flashback in alternating chapters. Yes, there are some depressing bits!

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Favourite book? That is a very hard question! :)
There are so many books I love, it makes it really hard to choose a favourite.

To name several, limiting myself to one book or series by an author:

Swallows and Amazons series by Arthur Ransome - children's books written and set in the 1930s about children camping, sailing and playing games of imagination in the Lake District. There are so many reasons why I loves these, the main on is that each of the children have their own strengths and weaknesses and these all play their part in the stories.

Lions Of Al-Rassan by Guy Gavriel Kay - historical fantasy set in a alternative version of Reconquest Spain. Very detailed and characters from all sides are shown without any feeling that there is one side that is right and the others are wrong. Individual characters are good, bad or mixed, mostly mixed and have their own motivations and values which inform their actions. It is also a book that makes me cry at the end, but without seeming too morbid.

Curse of Chalion by Lois McMaster Bujold - historical fantasy set in an alternative world parallel to Spain of Ferdinand and Isabella. A world where there are gods who intervene in the world, but can only work through people who let them. Twisty and very detailed.

Ivanhoe by Sir Walter Scott - historical novel based in England in the reign of Richard I. A nostalgia favourite, I think I was about 6 when my father first read this to me. I know there are problems with it - and I like having read it enough to know which bits I can skip. I really enjoyed the way that the reader keeps finding out more and so many of the characters aren't who they appear to be when the reader first encounters them.

Lord Of The Rings - obviously. Engrossing and such a sense of the world going on around the edges of the story with all the details of everything - history, language etc.

Interesting to see that I've picked 3 fantasy novels, 3 historical (of various types) and 1 children's book. I'm surprised as I read lots of science fiction, but thinking about it most of that is more light reading than the ones that I count as my favourites. I could list more, but I think this will do for now. :)

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Well, at least we share two of these: Ivanhoe and LOTR. The other fantasy books you've mentioned sound interesting, too. Never heard of them before, but again, they don't import the really good stuff all that often here. :(

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

They are very good. Lois McMaster Bujold's books hardly ever seem to be in bookshops here - I only started reading her books after my sister gave me one as a present. All of her books are good, although personally I find that the Chalion series are the best overall.
All of Guy Gavriel Kay's historical fantasy books are really good and, apart from Lord Of Emperors (sequel to Sailing To Sarantium, stand alone, although some of them are set in the same world. I don't like his straight fantasy ones as much, although I haven't read them for several years and keep meaning to reread to see if they are better than I remember, but I seem to have misplaced the first book in the series.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Curse of Chalion YEAH!

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

Let's hear it for Swallows and Amazons! There is a book that made my brothers and sister and me learn to sail and started my love for the Lake District. Who is your favourite character? Mine is Titty; I have always identified with her, partly because like her I am the second girl in a family of four children (Vicky/Bridget doesn't really count in the early books). However, I think it is the day-dreaming, the planning of adventures and way she feels responsible when alone with Roger that really does it.

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

My favourite is Nancy. I liked the way that she is so unconcerned with behaving as she should, her determination to have fun and solve any problem that comes up, her protectiveness of her mother.
I identified more with Titty as a child, but growing up I find that I identify more with Susan as well. As I child, I saw Titty as being like I was and Nancy as being who I would like to have been.
I did also make me love the Lake District - and was probably part of the reason I chose here (Lancaster) to go to university - not that I actually have spent as much time visiting it from here as I had expected, but still.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I love Nancy, too, and like you she represented the person I would have liked to be. Now I think I am quite happy to be a Titty, though sometimes I feel a bit like a Peggy. Isn't it fantastic that a man writing in the 1930's created these female characters that are strong and interesting and feel so very real, that we can identify with them? This is one of the reasons I get upset with people complaining that J.K. Rowling wrote books with a male main character; why should we have to limit ourselves to writing about people who share a gender with us? What we should do is complain if/about male authors not writing good female characters!

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Yes. I hate the whole "write what you know" philosophy - it seems to me that there are so many wonderful books that fall outside that and many bad books written because of it. Personally, I prefer to read books and then decide whether there is a problem with it rather than assume that facts about the author will influence the book (although I listen if people I trust tell me there are problems that will annoy me, but I read a lot of old books and prefer to be able to read them without needing the author to have modern sensibilities)
I agree that the best thing about his characters is that they feel so real and that makes them much easier to identify with, even as the books are so set in their period (I would say dated, but that is taken as a bad thing and I can't think of the right word for dated-in-a-good-way). :)

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I was going to suggest Swallows and Amazons by Arthur Ransome as one of my favourite (series of) books, but I see jenn_calaelen beat me to it. Hence I will go with another rather obvious book and say To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee. It really is a wonderful, and positive book, showing that humans can and will rise to better themselves if we believe in them and give them a chance. When my friend K mentioned that he hadn't knowingly read many books by female authors this was my immediate recommendation. I then bought it for him for his birthday, just to make sure he got the hint! Happily he does have good taste in books and enjoyed it very much.

Edited to fix html-coding error.

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Yay, always good to find another fan of the Swallows And Amazon series. :)

I never realised Harper Lee was female *feels ignorant* - To Kill A Mocking Bird is in my pile of books to read as my boyfriend was appalled to learn that I had never read it.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I won't lecture, because I didn't read To Kill a Mockingbird until my late twenties. Actually I was inspired to read it by the BBC Big Read programs; when my aunt realized I hadn't read it, discussing books with her and Mum that Christmas, she went and got her copy off her bookshelf and they both insisted that be my next book. It really is a very good book, to the point where once I had finished reading my aunt's copy and sent it back to her I went out and bought one of my own, just to have (and to lend to other people).

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

I will - I have been putting it off due to having not been in a space for reading serious books, but that seems to be getting better. :)

[ithilwen.livejournal.com]

Why am I leaving a comment now when it's not your birthday yet?

It's hard to go wrong with apple pie. If you're lazy like me, though, baking a single apple in a sweet dough is the way to go. Same apple goodness, a but half the prep time.

(Great - now I'm hungry for some fresh, hot apple pie! Which my hospital cafeteria doesn't have...)

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Because it's a monster party, and it's already gone on without you for days? *g*

Plus, because we have apple pie. Even if only a virtual one.

[ithilwen.livejournal.com]

Because it's a monster party, and it's already gone on without you for days? *g*

Good point! *holds out a plate for a virtual slice* Did you bring any vanilla ice cream? Pie is best ala mode.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Really? Never tried that way - we eat apple pie pure on these shores. But I may give your version a try. Sounds yummy.

[ithilwen.livejournal.com]

The pie should be very warm; it's the contrast in temperatures as much as the flavor which makes the combination of pie and ice cream so pleasant. Apple pie is good with cheddar cheese, too (although that's a less common combination here).

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see. Over here, we don't eat our apple pie hot. Definitely should try your version.

[sharp-glance.livejournal.com]

You're still here, mortal? I'd have thought your weak, sickly frame would have failed by now. I suppose, though, that some Mortals age like shoe leather - they just get tough and dry out over time, until they finally crumble away into dust.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Well, I *have* lost sixteen pounds since we last saw each other, so that explains your delusional ideas about mortal aging.

I've missed exchanging insults with you, though. No other Elf has such delightfully lousy manners. Well, your uncle perhaps, but that comes with the office. Celebs are the same all over Arda. ;)

[sharp-glance.livejournal.com]

I haven't missed you in the slightest. Mortals are so very dull! And your comments are nonsensical, even by mortal standards. There is nothing at all wrong with my manners; you are simply too lowly a creature to deserve a courteous response from one of my elevated station in life.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

My, my, ain't you full of yourself, elfling? Small wonder that most people can't stand you. But I don't take it personally. You know, I deal with small boys of the same attitude on a daily basis. I've learned to ignore their temper tantums and wipe their noses when they're done. *g*

[sharp-glance.livejournal.com]

No doubt your lowly work is the source of your confusion. No elfling would have fought in the Nirnaeth, as I did.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

So, you were a child soldier? Poor wibble Mole! *patpat* That certainly explains your damaged personality. Here, have a teddy bear! Bet you never had one when you were little.

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Favourite books? Hmmm.... I used to read an awful lot of books, back when I was young. Then I had kids, and later on, stuff happened. Nowadays most of my reading is on the internet.

But thinking back, there were some books which I still enjoy today. To mention a few (in no particular order):

Douglas Adams: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Orson Scott Card: Ender's Strategy

Frank Herbert: Dune

Patricia Nell Warren: The Frontrunner

John Irving: The World according to Garp

Mary Renault: The King Must Die

T H White: The Once and Future King

+ who-dunnits, tonnes tonnes of those!!! Dorothy Sayers, Margery Allingham, Dick Francis, just to mention a few of my fav authors.

And of course many, many books in my own language....

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I was going to claim to have discounted The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy on the 'being to obvious' count, but then I did go for To Kill a Mockingbird so maybe I will just say it hurts to much to remember he died far too young and will never write me any more books. Yes, I believe my favourite authors write books for me; who else could they possibly be doing it for? In the same vein, I think that when they stop (for silly reasons like death or loosing their minds to Alzheimer's) they are doing to spite me. It really isn't very nice of them, is it?

Also: Oh, a fellow Dorothy Sayers fan! Fantastic! :-)

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

LOVED those Peter Wimsey stories!! *g*

I guess The Hitchhiker's Guide is rather obvious, but it was so original - wonderful wordplay and the most bizarre ideas presented in an absolute deadpan manner.

Still, my list was limited to English books; I could have mentioned other books I loved as much - or more! - only none of you would have heard of them. *g*

>>Yes, I believe my favourite authors write books for me<<

Oh yes! That's the feeling one gets when the story is just... perfect. Communication straight from the author's mind to the reader's heart. :-)

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I am mostly kicking myself for not getting in there first with the Douglas Adams worship! They really are delightful books, so witty and original. Blowing up the Earth right at the start -- now that is different! I remember first realizing, about half-way through the second book I think, that Adams was actually keeping track of his own tale and not just telling totally disjointed stories, very good and quotable though they may be. It shocked and impressed me that he could write something that was so funny all the way through, yet still tied together. Have you read Last Chance to See? It is very funny in true Adams style, but also quite horrific with the stories of animal extinction.

What is your native language if you don't mind my asking? (I would never have guessed from your English that it wasn't your first language.)

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Wonderful books. I really must reread them soon. And amazing how the books, the tv show and the radio show are all different but so good in their own ways. Also, the Dirk Gentry books are so much fun.
I read Last Chance To See ages ago, but had mostly forgotten about it - I read a friend's copy and so have never reread it.
Have you read the recent HHG book? I haven't but was wondering if it is any good (if anyone knows)?

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

No, I haven't read it and don't exactly intend too. I am afraid Eoin Colfer put me right off when I read him saying he hadn't read (and didn't want to read) the bits of unpublished H2G2 that Adams left behind when he died. On the other hand I have really enjoyed the Artemis Fowler books I have read by Colfer, so he isn't a bad author.

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

That sounds like an a bad attitude for him to have. I've not read it in part because I'm not sure that anyone could write in that series well. :(

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I would love another H2G2 book, but I fear with anybody but Adams writing it I would be disappointed and I think reading an 'OK' book in that series would be worse than not reading any more H2G2 books at all.

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

I understand that attitude, but personally with series if someone new is writing I generally find myself able to think of the new book(s) as fanfic for the series unless I decide I want to count them as a real part of the series.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

For books I really, really like (and consider good literature) I am very wary of reading fan fiction. Short take-out pieces or stories set in the same universe, I am more inclined to give a chance, but a novel length work with the main characters would have to come very highly recommended for me to even try it. I suppose the fact that I came to fan fiction in the Harry Potter fandom, where there is an awful lot of very juvenile (in the bad sense of the word) works has formed my idea of what the majority of fan fiction is like.

Fanfic

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

A great deal of fanfic, in all fandoms, is unfortunately rubbish. But there are always fantastic gems, and some of them are novel-length, indeed. I for my part prefer very long stories, because it means that I can enjoy them longer. Of course, it often means that I have to abandon the story after a chapter or two (although I'm often too stubborn for my own good), but that's what the Back button is for, right?

Alas, I also tend to *write* ungodly long stories - which may be the reason why so very few brave and desperate people read them. ;)

Re: Fanfic

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

I agree about long stories - it makes me so happy to find a good long story in any of my fandoms, especially if it is complete. There are so many more good short stories, I find. Possibly because it seems that fandom rewards are higher for short stories.

You write very good stories - which I will catch up reading (for the fandoms I know) at some point.

Re: Fanfic

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Thank you. *blushes* I write in so many fandoms that I may reasonably hope you'll find something to your liking.

Re: Fanfic

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I am an instant gratification junky! I like things short, partly because otherwise I have to stop myself from reading it at all because I am very bad at stopping part-way through. There is also the fact that while I do work at my computer most of the day, I find it hard to read longer texts on the screen. If I am reading research papers for work I will print them out; somehow I don't feel justified to do that with fanfic.

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

I understand that - I first got into fandom in the Lord of the Rings fandom soon after the second film came out - loads of dreck but also some wonderful stories. At the time, I started out on fanfiction.net which at that point didn't really have much in the way of recs, so I learnt to just jump in and try reading and quit if it was a story that I didn't want to read - of course, it helped that it was while I was an undergrad, so I had loads of free time.
I find that Sturgeon's Law (in the general version) applies to fanfiction as much as to any other fiction.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

Enlighten me: What does Sturgeon's Law state?

and I consider all of the Lord of the Rings films as fanfiction; still after seeing each of them at the cinema for the first time, I had to re-read the book to purge my mind. Not that that was a hardship, of course!

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Sturgeon's law: 90% of anything is crud. First said about Science Fiction but it really seems to apply to anything in the way of fiction, tv, etc.

Definitely the films fall into a category of fanfiction - I still love the first one, although some of the changes are just annoying and bad, but the later two...

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Amen to that. The most annoying thing is: they got *some* things so right (Hobbiton, for starters), so why couldn't they get the rest of it right, too?

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Hobbiton is so wonderfully right - so is a lot of the other scenery with a few glaring exceptions. Just a pity that the rest of the films couldn't live up to it. For an adaptation I much prefer the bbc radio version as it sticks much closer to the plot and not having visuals there is so much less for them to get wrong otherwise.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

My sister and I bonded with my aunt over how badly Jackson treated Faramir in the second film. I understand that there is no way you can fit all of the book into three films, even if they are four hours each, so there were always going to need to be changes and cuts. But that and the Ents was changing the meaning and character of people and events and that I still haven't forgiven!

It seems to me Sturgeon might be considered an optimist... I suppose the trick is to find the good, however many percent.

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Yes. It was the changes that made Faramir so much less noble that annoyed me the most, especially as he is my favourite character. I wouldn't mind so much being left out if there weren't so many silly pointless things added and he had made the battles shorter - I found the battle scene really dragged and seemed to add little to the plot.

Certainly trying to find the good is the way to go. I think no matter the percentage, part of the point is that I feel that fanfic isn't that removed from any other form of fiction in how much is bad - and at least I don't have to pay for it to find out what I like. It is one of the reasons I very rarely go to the cinema - paying that much money to see a film unless I know I am going to like it feels wasteful. :)

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

The same here. I usually wait until it comes on TV, tape it, and then fast-forward the boring or annoying parts.

And I agree with you in the Faramir question. I hated what they made of him, and I hated the actor who played him. And don't even let me start on poor Denethor!

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

I usually watch things while doing other things at the same time - embroidery, computer games, etc. Makes most things more bearable. :)

[altariel.livejournal.com]

LOVE Sayers!

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Yay! Another fan. *g*

[altariel.livejournal.com]

"Placetne, magistra?" *happy sigh*

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Oh yes!!! And it was just right for them, in that situation - who else would you have speak latin in a situation like that and not look ridiculous?

They were both so determined to protect the other's... dignity? honour? - not sure of the right word here - that at times, one worried they wouldn't be able to make it past the stalemate and move forward. Over-thinking all the time.

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

I took the liberty of checking out your profile and realized you might in fact be familiar with one of my favourite books: Röde Orm. To this very day, it's one of the funniest reads and wildest tales I've read (and I still re-read it every few years). *g*

Back when I was in the 'gymnasium', the math teacher would read us the chapter about the Julegilde i Jelling as a special treat. He was as dry as they come, but this story brought out a spark in him.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I certainly know of Röde Orm though I have never read it. It is one of those books I keep thinking I will read, one day. That day has still not come, and since I seem to have less and less time to read I am not sure it will unless I give the book higher priority. With your recommendation I think I should.

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Well, I always liked "boy's books" best and this is a prime example, full of stubborn, not overly intelligent, vikings, who get themselves into heaps of trouble. It's very, very funny.

Re your earlier question:

Jeg er dansk - vi er naboer! *g*

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

I would pretty much read anything I could get my hands on when I was young, but looking back I can see that a lot of it was "boy's books". For example I read all of the C.S. Forrester Hornblower and Alexander Kent Bolitho books that my two brothers got (as well as the Gunilla Bergström Kulla-Gulla and Anne of Green Gables (and kindred) by L.M. Montgomery that my sister and I got). Since you are a fellow Scandinavian, did you ever come across Leif Hamre? He wrote "boy's books" about flying, that I really loved when I was young. I found some in a second hand bookshop a few years ago, and they are still good.

The only Danish book I am sure I have read is Fröken Smillas känsla för snö and I am afraid I read that in Swedish. There was also a novel that I read which was very good about the escape of the Danish Jews in WWII, but I can't remember the author now.

Hej granne! Fast jag bor i London, nuförtiden...

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

>>I would pretty much read anything I could get my hands on when I was young<<

lol - and if there was nothing else, then the fact box on the corn flakes box, right?

Loved Hornblower, the poor awkward sod, and Leif Hamre rings a faint bell... hmmm...

***

There are so many wonderful Swedish crime writers! A while back, I realized I'd spent most of a year reading almost only Swedish authors. *g*

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

then the fact box on the corn flakes box, right?
What else was it for? ;-) However, my Mum did a pretty good job of making sure there were other things to read, though. After all, the corn flakes box gets a bit boring after awhile since we didn't finish it very quickly! I am still rather disappointed in the British milk packages that don't have any text boxes on them: it is an awful waste of space that could hold words for me to read!

My favourite thing about Hornblower was that he got sea sick, just like me. It made him feel like a real person.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Fröken Smillas känsla för snö - I saw the movie of that, with German dubbing. Liked it a lot, although I don't know how much it had to do with the book.

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, it sure doesn't take much to collaps a thread now! Are we perhaps approaching page 3?

[altariel.livejournal.com]

We need twenty-five top level comments for a page to be full (the collapsing threads work differently). Yours was comment 18, if I counted correctly - so, yes, very close to page 3 now!

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

I see. Well, we might make it today, then. :-)

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Hope so!

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Still not there, though - and less than half an hour left of the day.

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Gosh. When did it get that late! Well, I seem to have spent most of the day here having fun. :)

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

As I'm working all day at the beginning of the week, I got there relatively late - and was overwhelmed by all the fun. :)

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

7 top level comments off, I think. :)
This is fun, isn't it!

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Definitely! *g*

It's also nice chatting to so many new faces. :-)

[jenn-calaelen.livejournal.com]

Indeed it is a wonderful party. :)

[rcfinch.livejournal.com]

Apart from the obvious:

- Homer's Odyssey, for the last forty-odd years or so. I immediately fell for Odysseus when I read it in primary school.

- The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco. I have a thing for labyrinths and multi-interpretability.

- The Ship that Flew, by Hilda Lewis. A childrens classic I love so much that I ordered a new one immediately after it fell apart two years ago.

- The Discovery of Heaven by the Dutch author Harry Mulisch. Especially the part where they rob the Vatican.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

- The Discovery of Heaven by the Dutch author Harry Mulisch. Especially the part where they rob the Vatican.

Now that sounds like great fun! Tell me more? I need more books on my to-be-read list like a fish needs a bicycle, but I crave them anyway!

[rcfinch.livejournal.com]

Here's a description of the book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Discovery_of_Heaven

and this is a list of reviews, plus other info:

http://www.complete-review.com/reviews/mulischh/heaven.htm

Warning 1: description may contain spoilers
Warning 2: book certainly contains stuff about Dutch politics that will bore non-Dutch readers.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

That does sound quite good! *Adds to ever growing to-be-read list*

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I second The Name of the Rose, although it seriously screeps me out, and the Odyssey. It's hard to beat the classics, right?

They rob the Vatican? Cool! And get away with it?

[maglors-finch.livejournal.com]

They do, but one suspects that supernatural agents had an interest in protecting them.

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Henry Fielding (Tom Jones).

Edited for garbled-up post. No more champagne for me! I wouldn't mind another slice of apple pie, though. *g*

[altariel.livejournal.com]

wiseheart asked in her original post for music suggestions - what is on our party playlist?

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Probably not Wagner, I'm guessing? :-)

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Good gracious, no! But what about the Hungarian Dances by Brahms, if we're talking about classical music? We *are* talking about classical music, aren't we? The sort with an actual melody in it and stuff?

If we're talking about contemporary music, then I'd vote for Vangelis, even if he tends to be repetitive after a while. Or Enya. Or, to pick something completely different, Mikis Theodorakis. Greek music is great for dancing!

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Enya is great for elf-inspiration: I have a whole ritual for when I'm writing my 'First Elves' stories and it includes listening to certain, carefully selected Enya songs. Works fine. :-)

Enya

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Which selection? Or is it a creative secret? :)

Re: Enya

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, can I link to it....? *gives it a try* http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=EDBD86F810575047

Nah, didn't work too well. :-( How does one do that?

Edit: OK, so it might help if I hadn't acidentally marked the playlist 'Private'. *headdesk*

Please try the link again - it oughta work now.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

How about some Grieg? I like the sound, if not the sentiment, of Solveigs sang.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

For those not fluent in a Scandinavian language here is an English version of Solveig's song.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, I know this one - very pretty. And the singer has a beautiful voice.

We're learning a Christmas song from Norway with the choir right now - it reminds me of this piece somehow.

[solanpolarn.livejournal.com]

Can you tell me anything more about the Norwegian Christmas song? I like Christmas music (except the overly-commercial stuff) and I should be able to understand one in Norwegian, being Swedish myself.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I don't have the notes here with me, but will try not to forget to look up the title for you tomorrow.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I wonder if we'll reach 400 and a third page tonight...?

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Actually, your comment *was* #400. We're still on Page 2, though. I think I'll start a new thread.

New thread...

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

... because we need to get to Page 3. Let's try something meme-like for a change.

1. Name 3 of your most favourite fandoms.
2. Name one character of each fandom you particularly like. Tell us why.
3. Name one character of each that you don't like. Tell us why.
4. If you can, recommend a piece of fanfic to each of those fandoms.
5. Post your entry as a new comment rather than a reply, so that it would get us to Page 3 - and make it easier for the rest of us to discuss the individual entries.