Tolkien meme

[wiseheart]

Gakked from Lissa

1. How did you get involved in the fandom? What was your first place/haven within the fandom?

After the first movie. I was searching for some good Buffy fic, and one of the better authors, I don't even remember who it was, wrote some LOTR fic, too. I hadn't even been aware of the existence of LOTR fanfic before 2001.

2. When did you first read Tolkien's writing?

Approx. 30 years ago. I was in my early twenties. Yes, as you know I'm actually that old. *g*

3. What did you read first?

The Hobbit, then LOTR. I didn't read SIL until a few years later, and to tell the honest truth, it's my least favourite piece. UT, I read at about the same time, and loved it instantly. HoME I haven't read front to back either, but that's not the way to read it anyhow. I love the early LOTR versions and especially the Book of Lost Tales, though.

4. When did you first see the movies?

About a year after they hit the cinemas everywhere else. We always got the movies much later over here. I hated them like the plague. I still do.

5. How did you come to be involved where you are now in the fandom?

I wrote my first Tolkienfic in 2001, IIRC, and posted it to Least Expected - sadly, the site is gone now. I joined FF.Net a year later. My first story was what has in the meantime become the first two chapters of "Forgotten Song". The original parts have been beta read twice since then but are, basically, the same, and I'm still very fond of them.

6. What was the first fanfic story you read?

I think it was some hair-raising Aragorn/Legolas slash by AJ. I'm still surprised that I gave the fandom a rat's chance after that. But then I found "The Fire Sermon" by altariel and was hooked for life.

To AJ's credit, though, s/he was very supportive for new writers and gave at least one piece of encouragement to everyone who's ever reviewed one of his/her stories, despite being insanely popular at that time. Many of todays Big Name Authors could take an example on her/him.

7. What was the first fanfic story you wrote? Was it Tolkien centric, or another genre?

It was a sci-fi story when I was about ten or eleven. Written after a Sowiet author none of you has likely had heard of. I don't remember his name, either.

8. Name 3 of your favorite Tolkien characters. Why do you like them?

Boromir - he got short shrift from the Professor to push Aragorn forward, he got abused a lot by so-called authors, but he was a heroic character who's sacrificed his whole life for his country... and not just for the ill-fated effort to save Merry and Pippin. I think he was better off dead, the poor sod. His family served Gondor for 26 generations, protected the country rather successfully, and now he'd have to step down, just because Aragorn had the better pedigree? Oh, please...

Thranduil - or, to be more accurate, the Elvenking of Mirkwood. My first, never-ending love, since I read The Hobbit. He managed to protect his realm against Dol Guldur, and that without any magic trinkets, he's gone native among the Silvan folk, rediscovering the very Elven trait to be one with the forest, and he helped the Men of Laketown rebuild their town. The best Elven ruler in all three Ages and some. Not to mention a handsome beast. *g*

9. What are 3 of your least favorite characters? Why?

Fëanor. The guy was obsessed, a kinslayer, and he corrupted his own sons. Not to mention that he brought down practically every single Elven kingdom in Middle-earth due to his cursed jewels.

Elwing. What kind of mother was she anyway? Abandoning her sons to the mercy of the Kinslayers for a frigging Silmaril?

Túrin. Of all the self-centered, egoistic, hotheaded idiots the worst, IMO. I hate that guy with the passion of a thousand burning sons. So, he killed the dragon - and? So did Bard the Bowman, without ruining people left and right before.

I know I don't have more choices, but I really, really dislike Aragorn, too. What sort of justice is it, discarding the Stewards, who had served Gondor faithfully - not to mention successfully - just so that he could marry Arwen?

10. What genres do you like to read the most?

I generally don't read movieverse stories because I hated the movies so much. Otherwise, although I prefer the Third Age, mostly, I read just about everything. I like long stories, with lots and lots of background building, gap-fillers, stories that feature little-known characters and contain lots of hints only those really familiar with Tolkien's universe can find.

In short, I like the kind of stories I write. Which is the reason why I write them: because I don't find them so often as I'd like. Think of it as some sort of self-servicing. *g*

11. What Tolkien eras/cultures/events/ etc. do you feel you have the strongest knowledge in?

That's hard to say for sure. I've done so much research for my stories that I'm pretty well-versed in Tolkien's world. But perhaps Gondor in particular, around the end of the Third Age, as I've worked with that period the most, due to the Halabor Chronicles.

12. What areas do you feel you can help other authors with?

Erm... perhaps with facts about medieval lifestyle? I dunno. Nobody ever wanted me to help them with anything.

13. What do you feel are your weaknesses as a writer? What would you like to improve on?

I'm not a native English speaker, and it's very hard to find a beta reader who'd dig through the amount of stuff I write. So I have to post a lot of my stuff un-betaed, which sometimes leads to nasty nitpicking. I'm trying to improve my English with lots of reading, but it doesn't always help.

14. What Tolkien era/culture/events/etc. would you like to know more about?

Middle-earth in the Second Age, especially concerning Men. The history of Umbar. Everything about the Elven kingdom of Oropher.

15. What are you currently writing, what's your latest work in progress?

Currently trying to finish "The Web of Darkness" and a short Halabor piece. I have about a dozen or so WIPs, some of which have been on the back burner for years. I'd like to finish them all; and I sorely miss the chance to discuss stuff with other people.

16. What is your favorite story you wrote? Why?

Honestly, I love them all. I couldn't pick out one for the life of me. Of course, "Forgotten Song", as the first one, will always have a special place in my heart, even if it's probably not my best.

17. What is your least favorite story you wrote? Why?

Heh! Legolas' torrid affair and wondrous adventures with the red-haired elleth of the tragic past. A classic Mary Sue of the worst sort. Thankfully, it was never written down, only thought out in great detail. It would have been in Hungarian anyway, as at that time I didn't speak English yet.

18. What do you hope to accomplish in your future in the fandom?

I no longer hope to have a future in this fandom. I just lack the special gene that makes an author popular. I've given up... writing is something I do because I can't not write, but that's the only reason I'm still going on.


This was a good meme, really. It made me rethink my feelings towards this fandom, and thus proved useful.

Comments

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

or, to be more accurate, the Elvenking of Mirkwood. My first, never-ending love, since I read The Hobbit. He managed to protect his realm against Dol Guldur, and that without any magic trinkets, he's gone native among the Silvan folk, rediscovering the very Elven trait to be one with the forest, and he helped the Men of Laketown rebuild their town. The best Elven ruler in all three Ages and some. Not to mention a handsome beast. *g*

I have to agree with you there, although I don't write much of the Silvan Elves, because there are people who do it much better for one thing, ( lol, like you ) and my stories just have not really lead me there. He was the character who first got me interested in the Elves in the Hobbit, after that I just finished it to see if there was more! :)

I agree rather a lot about Boromir and Aragorn also. Tolkien did continually shove Aragorn's ancestry into readers faces. All I was concerned about was what would happen to the Elves if Sauron won. ( one track mind )

I'm not a native English speaker, and it's very hard to find a beta reader who'd dig through the amount of stuff I write. So I have to post a lot of my stuff un-betaed, which sometimes leads to nasty nitpicking. I'm trying to improve my English with lots of reading, but it doesn't always help.

Well, I am in the UK. I am not marvelous, but I don't mind looking, I always hesitate to offer my services such as they are, to good authors, because I can't find any-one willing to look at all my stuff either, which I am almost always going back to faff around with. I did have a wonderful beta for some of my last story, and learned a great deal, ( resulting in even more edit-faffing ) but he beta's for so many people, and works, and cares for some-one.I did not want to add to his workload, or wait four to six weeks, as sometimes I do write pretty fast and don't like hanging about. My fault for asking a very popular - and excellent - beta! He is a lovely person.

I have looked at some people's work, for whom English is not their first language. Quite honestly, most of them need very little editing.

I no longer hope to have a future in this fandom. I just lack the special gene that makes an author popular. I've given up... writing is something I do because I can't not write, but that's the only reason I'm still going on.

You're kidding, right? The first time I saw some of your writing ( and I am not even sure where ) I thought every-one wrote that well and that was the benchmark for all fanfiction and I was as impressed as hell that there were people who were ' expanding ' on Tolkien. Actually there is only a very small amount whom I consider the upper echelon in the fandom. I'm not even sure who the popular authors are as I mainly read on LOTR FF.com, ( which is quite a small site ) not ff.net, and on the SWG, and even though I voted for authors there who did win in the MEFA's, in some cases, it was Silmarillion fic, which does not have a massive fanbase in any case. They are almost all ' niche writers '

I have heard your name mentioned so many times on forums on ff.net as a superb writer and the idea of actually communicating with you scared me witless! And the only reason, the onlyIn short, I like the kind of stories I write. Which is the reason why I write them: because I don't find them so often as I'd like. Think of it as some sort of self-servicing. *g*

That is what CS Lewis said, that no-one wrote the stories he liked to read, so he had to write them himself.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Well, what I would mostly need beta-ing for would be basic grammar stuff. My second language is German, I started at the age of 3, and I tend to try using English the same way - needless to say that it doesn't work. *g*

I thank you for your flattering estimate of my modest talent. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. I know that there still are people who do like my stuff, even though my few regulars have long left the fandom. I'd just like to some signs of it from time to time. It frustrates the living hell out of me when those "bestsellers" get an ungodly amount of support, while I can call myself lucky if I get one oomment per chapter. *le sigh*

And no need to be scared, really. I don't bite. In fact, I love to meet people who have the same interests as I do. I love discussing those interests in great detail. I have no one for that sort of thin in real life.

Oh, and I finally came around to friend you back, so don't be surprised when friends-locked entries show up on your Friends page. ;))

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

You have more than a ' modest talent '!
I think the majority of people simply don't bother to review. I did not when I first joined ff.com, as I didn't think the authors I was reading would care. I was very shy. And some don't respond to reviews - but only a minority. I look at the read count of some of my favorite stories and when you see over 10,000 page clicks and about twenty reviews or less, it does make me annoyed on behalf of the authors. I know now that some post on her and get reviewed here, but still. Once I did begin reviewing I became very enthusiastic, especially when some people were kind enough to both respond and email me to thank me. they were terrific writers but scarcely reviewed, which was shameful I thought. Either people are just shy, too busy or too lazy, I think.

If you do wish to send me anything, I will willingly look although I am not some-one who suggests things, or plot, which I don't think is my business, just words and so forth.

Oh, and I finally came around to friend you back, so don't be surprised when friends-locked entries show up on your Friends page. ;))
Thank-you, I am perfectly harmless :)

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I bet you are. Me, on the other hand... *evil cackle*

Thanks for the offer. I might take you on your word. ;)
And yeah, positive reviews are that which feeds the muse. For some reason, people are never lazy to nitpick, to lecture or just to be plain unpleasant. They are only too lazy when they'd have something positive to say.

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

I bet you are. Me, on the other hand... *evil cackle*

O_o

:DDD

It's always easier to say something negative than positive, some-one remarked about a year ago. Unfortunately that's true. And there do seem to be people on ff.net who just hang around to nitpick. To be honest, I don't take much notice of typo's etc in a story unless they are continuous and glaring.
If the story is good I get pulled through the typed words into it completely, and that's the whole point of an engrossing tale.

I have found I am better at beta-ing if some-one specifically asks me. I take my time. It's also easier than reading my own, because after a few times, I just glaze over.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

You can never find all typos in your own writing. I know. I've tried. No matter how many times you proofread, there's always one more. And there's always someone who finds it. Which wouldn't be so bad, if they didn't point it out in a manner that suggests that you are either a complete idiot or don't care about your grammar. Alas, not only on ff.net. I had some crushing experiences with the MEFAs too, this year.

Me, I'm not particularly bothered by a few stray typos, either, as long as the story I'm reading is good. Nobody is perfect, and spellchecker can only do so much for you. Especially when those dratted homonymes come into the game.

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

Nobody is perfect, and spellchecker can only do so much for you. Especially when those dratted homonymes come into the game.

yes, I've learned not to rely on that,* Nnnnggg! Bites knuckles *. I am afraid I don't have an analytical enough mind to go through a story with a nit-comb, I just want a damn good story.

Well, with regard to the MEFA's, one of the winners was told by some-one on ff.com that they wanted to kill her for her writing, so what can you say. :| I am never entirely happy with competitions myself, even though my work is not eligible ( well, strictly speaking it is, but rate for subject matter more than content ) since I know there were some unplaced works which that were beaten by ones nowhere near as good. Other people mentioned that too, since some-one put up a list of ones which they thought should have been placed. There were some that won which thoroughly deserved it, and some which seemed a lot like ' friend votes ' and I don't see any way around that, since the Tolkien fandom, large as it is, is also a ' small world. '
I won't read a story just because it has an award on it, because I know some shockingly overlooked and brilliant authors.
I thought you were one of the Big names, myself, and you certainly deserve to be!

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Flatterer! I thank you anyway, it does good to hear it. Encouragement is incredibly helpful, but I think you know that yourself. :)

BTW, where do you post your stuff? I'd like to read something from you, even if our main Tolkien-related interests don't necessarily overlap.

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

Encouragement was something I never expected, although I write because I love writing.

Umm, well, I don't mind giving you the link, but I don't think you would like my stuff. It is written within one AU, but as close to canon as my vision permits. I use a main OC, and I apparently people don't like OC's, though I never knew that, and he does have people who like his character, so I don't know...all characters were OC's when the author wrote them, after all. I was so used to writing original fiction that it felt natural to write an OC.

There's also a lot, although you also write prolifically, so perhaps you don't mind long stories. I have had some people say they would read me if the sheer volume didn't put them off. XD

Well, here is my bio page (http://www.lotrfanfiction.com/viewuser.php?uid=2239) on the Lord of the Rings Fanfiction Community. It's not necessary for you to read it however, the summaries are probably enough XD

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link. I'll give it a try. I do like long stories, I don't mind original characters (I started off with original fics, too, and besides, in my Halabor stories hardly ever appear any canon characters), and as I do have a little time to spend with delightful reading during the holidays, I think I'll take a look.

Mind if I cry for help, should I get utterly confused? *g*

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

Mind if I cry for help, should I get utterly confused? *g*

Not at all, although I hope that somewhere along the line all questions are answered, although perhaps not straight away. I do like to answer every question, but not always immediately. Since it is from the main characters POV, there are some things he does not know himself for thousands of years.

There are some great authors on my bio actually, whose work I really love. I live to plug. :)

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Okay, I promise I'll only cry for help after I've finished reading. Count on it somewhere in the next century, given my working schedule. ;)

Plugging is a very noble hobby, one that I practice myself. That's what telekis_vendiak is for: to link all the stories in the various fandoms I happen to like for some reason. They aren't all that excellent (although most of them really are), but even in some of the less outstanding stories, I sometimes find things I simply love.

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

Oh, don't worry about it. There are much better works out there.

I saw that and I would like to make a community to do the same, since I love reviewing and plugging authors. If I put it on my normal LJ it will get buried, however, so having one which is solely for recommendations is a great idea.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Admittedly, the comm was originally created for a very different purpose, but since it was there anyway, I thought I should put it to good use.

Since I read (and even write) in so many fandoms, it seemed easier to collect all my favourites in one place, instead of post the recs in random comms where I happen to be the owner or a member. I do have this anal-retentive streak in me somewhere (well buried). Mum's a book-keeper, after all, I had to inherit at least something from her - math skills definitely weren't part of it. *g*

[lissas-elves.livejournal.com]

I hope you and your mother are enjoying Christmas Day. How is she, by the way? Is she past her recent health problems?

>>Name 3 of your favorite Tolkien characters. Why do you like them?
Boromir <<
Oh yes! It seemed as if all his years fighting the enemy were just disregarded. He really was better off dying when he did; he'd most likely have been too proud to become Aragorn's steward. Faramir seemed better able to adapt (he's one of my favourite Men, btw).

Thranduil: So true! The guy deserved a medal - he did a great job, protecting his lands and his people for so many years. He must have been a great leader.

>>Nobody ever wanted me to help them with anything.<<

You'd better be careful what you say, lady! *g*

>>I have to post a lot of my stuff un-betaed, which sometimes leads to nasty nitpicking.<<

I know you're really hurt by those comments and it does seem rude that people post such things in reviews. If people wish to nitpick, they should send an email, IMO. Reviews are about the STORY, not about typos!

But in the MEFAs, there were only few of these; most of the reviews were glowing praises of your stories. And I know that for certain since I read them all to filter out any nasty ones for you - lol.

>>I no longer hope to have a future in this fandom. I just lack the special gene that makes an author popular. I've given up... writing is something I do because I can't not write, but that's the only reason I'm still going on.<<

While I agree that writing is something one does because one can't NOT do it, I don't agree about the rest of your statement. And I don't know if popularity is necessarily something to strive for.

For one thing, your stories are obviously the work of an intelligent and very knowledgeable person and as such may not be suitable for the average FF-reader (wow! that sounded snobbish - bad Lissa! - but quite frankly, it seems that many of them are teens looking for Legolas). However, I have no explanation for the lack of recognition on other sites.

Another thing is that I've seen many wonderful stories receive almost no reviews and get overlooked in the MEFAs etc. That does not diminish the value of these stories or their writers in my eyes, it only proves that we readers are really weird. And it makes me worry that these excellent writers (including you) will stop writing such good stories when they're not recognized.

Finally, I do feel guilty because I don't read or review much myself, even though so many writers have been incredibly supportive towards me and given me advice etc. It's just that reviews really require a major effort, and I really don't have much energy to spare, even on the best of days. But I'll try to improve!

***

I'm glad you thought the meme useful! :-)

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Mum is well, thanks. The problems proved to be short-time, thank God, and we enjoy wonderful days of laziness. Laziness is good for body and soul. We ate that Christmas dinner last night, listened to some music and exchanged presents. Today, it's leftovers and lazing around, and she'll finally be able to watch the "Murder, She Wrote" DVDs I got for her in Vienna, back in November.

>>Nobody ever wanted me to help them with anything.<<

>You'd better be careful what you say, lady! *g*<

Oh, I'd be happy to discuss characters and events and plot twists with you. That's why I've created the Edhellond group to begin with, and I'm sad that so little is going on there. Feel free to put up there anything you're working on or you want help with, and I'd gladly share ideas and opinions with you. I'm sure disthrainsdotte would make the one or other comment, too. She seems to be the only one with enough time to do so in these days.

>>I have to post a lot of my stuff un-betaed, which sometimes leads to nasty nitpicking.<<

>I know you're really hurt by those comments and it does seem rude that people post such things in reviews. If people wish to nitpick, they should send an email, IMO. Reviews are about the STORY, not about typos!<

Agreed. That's what mistry89 does, and I'm incredibly grateful for it. So I can run back to the story, correct the mistaked and people can enjoy the results, without the Pointy Finger of Doom being displayed on the review board.

Re: lack of recognition on various sites
Most of those sites have their pet writers - some of them are really talented, others are not, although I'm beginning to doubt that talent truly has to do anything with it. I don't know *what* has to do with it. But the fact is, that some people *always* get lots and lots of glowing comments, no matter what they post, while others get simply overlooked.

I think it does have to do something with our reading habits. Like everyone else, I go for certain types of stories, certain characters and so on. There are a handful of writers whom I find very good, so I'd read everything they write. And sometimes I follow recommendations of people whose taste I trust. While my interests are varied and wide, not everyone is the same. And sometimes people don't even give a new writer in their preferred genre a try because they don't know her/him. The various groups in this fandom are like sects sometimes.

Oh, but you *do* review! And it's not so as if the authors would always expect long, exhausting essays, you know. ;o) Sometimes a pat on the shoulder would do perfectly well.

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

I know you're really hurt by those comments and it does seem rude that people post such things in reviews. If people wish to nitpick, they should send an email, IMO. Reviews are about the STORY, not about typos!

I couldn't agree more, although I have left a couple of reviews when the spelling was truly awful, as if the author did not care at all. And then I email to say I hope they did not think I was being horrible. But I never leap on the odd typo. I am a mistress of typos myself.

Another thing is that I've seen many wonderful stories receive almost no reviews and get overlooked in the MEFAs etc. That does not diminish the value of these stories or their writers in my eyes, it only proves that we readers are really weird. And it makes me worry that these excellent writers (including you) will stop writing such good stories when they're not recognized.

Not at all. Of three authors I love, I've only met another two people in my life who have heard of them, one in Germany and one in Denmark. They are incredible storytellers yet two people have heard of them in 20 years? O_o

And look at Kenaz - gorgeous stuff and what did Ionnath-Estel get? Two reviews? I was floored.

For one thing, your stories are obviously the work of an intelligent and very knowledgeable person and as such may not be suitable for the average FF-reader (wow! that sounded snobbish - bad Lissa! - but quite frankly, it seems that many of them are teens looking for Legolas). However, I have no explanation for the lack of recognition on other sites.

Snobbish but true.

Most of those sites have their pet writers - some of them are really talented, others are not, although I'm beginning to doubt that talent truly has to do anything with it. I don't know *what* has to do with it. But the fact is, that some people *always* get lots and lots of glowing comments, no matter what they post, while others get simply overlooked.

And I also believe that there are some very big names who have people fawn around them rather, which is too cliquey for me. I won't read them just for that reason. If some-one thinks they're good I am completely put-off. I am a hugely enthusiastic supporter of people I love, but all of them, without exception, chew their nails about their writing. I don't intend to be a groupie for some-one who is smug and complacent. I have read a couple by such authors and wondered what the damn fuss was about.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I don't intend to be a groupie for some-one who is smug and complacent. I have read a couple by such authors and wondered what the damn fuss was about.

You and me, too. I generally review whenever I see something I like, regardless of the author, but I draw the line by such writers. Even if they do write fairly decent stuff. They've got enough sycophants on their own.

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

They tend to write very correctly, as if they had studied to learn how to write properly, but -- :|

When I spoke to my uncle once, who taught English almost 40 years, he said. ' I can teach you to write correctly. I can't teach you talent. '
I always remember that.

I've seen it a couple of times on forums on ff.net, with certain authors who seem to consider themselves the sole arbiters of writing and on judging excellent Tolkien fanfiction.
There's one story there now whose reviews are filled with sycophantic smarming. The author herself will nitpick spelling ' You put ' their ' instead of ' there ' and come down very hard on authors. So when I saw a story up by her after reading her forums I thought I would see what made her the judge of fanfic.
I can't say I hated it or thought it awful, it was just bland, with boring characters, and did not engage my interest.Of course, it would suit canatics and people who like het fluff. It was nothing, like any second hand book you pick up that some-one buys because they are on holiday and bored and then throws away. Apparently this is good writing? Inoffensive and dull as ditchwater?

There are a couple of others who people speak of in tones of awe, which I find amusing. It must be wonderful to believe oneself so elevated from the rest of us poor grunts. I have seen the writing and it's correct, yes, it's not something that's going to stay with me. I don't favorite those authors and I don' quite know how they became so ' famous '. Still, I suppose people take you at your own evaluation, and if you exude enough confidence, and have that much power of conviction, people believe it.

I don't even hold Tolkien in awe, I find his creation endlessly fascinating, deep and rich but I am not a canon purist and don't think every character or story he wrote was wonderful -- which is why I love fanfic.I am more likely to admire an author who is courageous enough to write outside canon while knowing it.

I'm very hard to please. I look for people who write with passion, and since I read mainly Elf-centric stories, authors who somehow inherently understand the nature of Elves. Sod the odd run-on sentence or wrongly placed word, there has to be a fire in the writing, and in this world of ennui, it's actually enormously hard to find.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Well, I am something of a canon purist (until it gets into the way of my storytelling, that is), but there are a few things in Tolkien's universe that I simply refuse to accept because they're too tightly bound to the Victorian thinking.

Besides, canon is a matter of interpretation. Especially by Tolkien who cheerfully contradicted himself several times. Take just the three different origins of Celeborn. For my part, I only consider binding canon what's written down in "The Hobbit" and LOTR. Those were the things Tolkien himself considered ready for publication. Period. Everything else is a matter of consensus - even the Silmarillion. Well, especially the Silmarillion, as Christopher Tolkien and his co-author (whose name I've conveniently forgotten) made drastic editing when they put the book together.

So, IMO, we're free to chose any of the different versions from any of the other books - or combine them to make our own. There's always a piece of "canon" we can refer to, aren't there? *g*

Similarly, I feel free to ignore the ideas in "Laws and Customs of Elves", because frankly, I find them ridiculous. Some canon purists are so terribly concerned about Tolkien's world being soiled by Teh Ebol Sexxxors that they'd rather sanftify all three kinslayings than admit that some Elves might not be all that monogamous. *snort*

>>I'm very hard to please.

Well, in that case I feel doubly honoured that you seem to like my stuff. Oh, and thanks for the review. It made my day.

>>Sod the odd run-on sentence or wrongly placed word, there has to be a fire in the writing, and in this world of ennui, it's actually enormously hard to find.

Agreed. I don't understand all that fuss about run-on sentences anyway. What would those "critics" do if they had to read German literature? German literary language is nothing else but run-on sentences; some of them fill a page and a half, and that's considered high art!

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

Similarly, I feel free to ignore the ideas in "Laws and Customs of Elves", because frankly, I find them ridiculous. Some canon purists are so terribly concerned about Tolkien's world being soiled by Teh Ebol Sexxxors that they'd rather sanftify all three kinslayings than admit that some Elves might not be all that monogamous. *snort*

I read them. I laughed.

There's a good book review, Elves in Anglo-Saxon England (http://www.forteantimes.com/reviews/books/549/elves_in_anglosaxon_england.html) ( I'd like to get the book ) of how Elves were viewed by our ancestors in northern Europe, and a very fascinating ( and long ) one translated from Russian The True Elves (http://www.shelltown.net/~dangweth/elfsaga.html).

Tolkien basically took the bits he liked from folklore, and ignore those that were perhaps to earthy or wild for his tastes, so yes, I don't see why we are not at liberty to decide which of his ideas we want to use.

There's always a piece of "canon" we can refer to, aren't there? *g* If you want it it is usually there somewhere. He was going to have Eol take Aredhel by force, meaning Elves could rape or perform noncon acts, and Fëanor supposedly lusted after Galadriel, which was incestuous. His discarded ideas, which would not have fitted with LACE are often more interesting. People cling to LACE as if it is the only canon in any of his works and get extremely venomous if people diverge from it. I thought Elves marrying young and losing their sex drive within a few hundred years was ridiculous. They were apparently interested in other things - anything except sex, in fact. To me, if you live that long you can become an artist of erotica, not asexual. XD

Oh, and thanks for the review. It made my day.

I never leave many on ff.net, ( Too much nasty drama on that site, it puts me off ) and there is not the review-response option as on other sites so I never know if any-one reads them, or cares. Thank-you. I was going to ask if you had touched on the earlier years of Oropher and the Greenwood, and then I saw that!

I've read wonderful authors write run on sentences, if they're correctly set out there's nothing wrong with them.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

It's not entirely Tolkien's fault, you know. It's hard to outgrow that kind of strong Catholic indoctrination he'd been raise in, even if one tries one's best to do so. And he never even tried. The idea never occurred to him, I think, in those times.

Still, it's sad that he grew so much more rigid in his late years. The other thing I really, really hate is the Awakening, where all Elves supposedly awakened with their spouses ready on their sides, so that free will wouldn't even have the chance to enter the scenery. Bah!

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

I'm glad he created - or rather utilized many od legends to create Middle-earth, but honestly now, ( after reading him for twenty-odd years ) I prefer good fanfic. I do know him - now I want to read deeper, or other interpretations. He set the stage - as he apparently wished to - there's room for others.

Yes, I read that not so long ago, about the Elves waking. he did have very idealistic views, which to me don't fit the Elves, it's like trying to straightjacket them.
But what about Thingol then, he couldn't have woken with his wife, as he married Melian, but apparently he was one of the first Elves.

I look at his work like a history, which is prone to the biases and mistakes and omissions of all recorded history.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Well, the various versions of Thingol (from Tinwe Linto on) predated those very straightlaced essays by decades, which proves my point that the Professor grew more rigid with advanced age.

History is a very good comparism (sp?), actually. Written by the winners and all that.

[ithilwen.livejournal.com]

So Altariel is the one who suckered into this madness. She has a lot to answer for! ;-)

Merry Christmas!

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Yes, she was the one. "The Fire Sermon" is sheer awesome, I'm still awed whenever I re-read it, and that doesn't happen with me all the time.

Besides, without her, I'd never "met" you and a lot of other people who're nice and wonderful, which makes up for the general nastiness of this fandom.