Tolkien meme

[wiseheart]

Gakked from Lissa

1. How did you get involved in the fandom? What was your first place/haven within the fandom?

After the first movie. I was searching for some good Buffy fic, and one of the better authors, I don't even remember who it was, wrote some LOTR fic, too. I hadn't even been aware of the existence of LOTR fanfic before 2001.

2. When did you first read Tolkien's writing?

Approx. 30 years ago. I was in my early twenties. Yes, as you know I'm actually that old. *g*

3. What did you read first?

The Hobbit, then LOTR. I didn't read SIL until a few years later, and to tell the honest truth, it's my least favourite piece. UT, I read at about the same time, and loved it instantly. HoME I haven't read front to back either, but that's not the way to read it anyhow. I love the early LOTR versions and especially the Book of Lost Tales, though.

4. When did you first see the movies?

About a year after they hit the cinemas everywhere else. We always got the movies much later over here. I hated them like the plague. I still do.

5. How did you come to be involved where you are now in the fandom?

I wrote my first Tolkienfic in 2001, IIRC, and posted it to Least Expected - sadly, the site is gone now. I joined FF.Net a year later. My first story was what has in the meantime become the first two chapters of "Forgotten Song". The original parts have been beta read twice since then but are, basically, the same, and I'm still very fond of them.

6. What was the first fanfic story you read?

I think it was some hair-raising Aragorn/Legolas slash by AJ. I'm still surprised that I gave the fandom a rat's chance after that. But then I found "The Fire Sermon" by altariel and was hooked for life.

To AJ's credit, though, s/he was very supportive for new writers and gave at least one piece of encouragement to everyone who's ever reviewed one of his/her stories, despite being insanely popular at that time. Many of todays Big Name Authors could take an example on her/him.

7. What was the first fanfic story you wrote? Was it Tolkien centric, or another genre?

It was a sci-fi story when I was about ten or eleven. Written after a Sowiet author none of you has likely had heard of. I don't remember his name, either.

8. Name 3 of your favorite Tolkien characters. Why do you like them?

Boromir - he got short shrift from the Professor to push Aragorn forward, he got abused a lot by so-called authors, but he was a heroic character who's sacrificed his whole life for his country... and not just for the ill-fated effort to save Merry and Pippin. I think he was better off dead, the poor sod. His family served Gondor for 26 generations, protected the country rather successfully, and now he'd have to step down, just because Aragorn had the better pedigree? Oh, please...

Thranduil - or, to be more accurate, the Elvenking of Mirkwood. My first, never-ending love, since I read The Hobbit. He managed to protect his realm against Dol Guldur, and that without any magic trinkets, he's gone native among the Silvan folk, rediscovering the very Elven trait to be one with the forest, and he helped the Men of Laketown rebuild their town. The best Elven ruler in all three Ages and some. Not to mention a handsome beast. *g*

9. What are 3 of your least favorite characters? Why?

Fëanor. The guy was obsessed, a kinslayer, and he corrupted his own sons. Not to mention that he brought down practically every single Elven kingdom in Middle-earth due to his cursed jewels.

Elwing. What kind of mother was she anyway? Abandoning her sons to the mercy of the Kinslayers for a frigging Silmaril?

Túrin. Of all the self-centered, egoistic, hotheaded idiots the worst, IMO. I hate that guy with the passion of a thousand burning sons. So, he killed the dragon - and? So did Bard the Bowman, without ruining people left and right before.

I know I don't have more choices, but I really, really dislike Aragorn, too. What sort of justice is it, discarding the Stewards, who had served Gondor faithfully - not to mention successfully - just so that he could marry Arwen?

10. What genres do you like to read the most?

I generally don't read movieverse stories because I hated the movies so much. Otherwise, although I prefer the Third Age, mostly, I read just about everything. I like long stories, with lots and lots of background building, gap-fillers, stories that feature little-known characters and contain lots of hints only those really familiar with Tolkien's universe can find.

In short, I like the kind of stories I write. Which is the reason why I write them: because I don't find them so often as I'd like. Think of it as some sort of self-servicing. *g*

11. What Tolkien eras/cultures/events/ etc. do you feel you have the strongest knowledge in?

That's hard to say for sure. I've done so much research for my stories that I'm pretty well-versed in Tolkien's world. But perhaps Gondor in particular, around the end of the Third Age, as I've worked with that period the most, due to the Halabor Chronicles.

12. What areas do you feel you can help other authors with?

Erm... perhaps with facts about medieval lifestyle? I dunno. Nobody ever wanted me to help them with anything.

13. What do you feel are your weaknesses as a writer? What would you like to improve on?

I'm not a native English speaker, and it's very hard to find a beta reader who'd dig through the amount of stuff I write. So I have to post a lot of my stuff un-betaed, which sometimes leads to nasty nitpicking. I'm trying to improve my English with lots of reading, but it doesn't always help.

14. What Tolkien era/culture/events/etc. would you like to know more about?

Middle-earth in the Second Age, especially concerning Men. The history of Umbar. Everything about the Elven kingdom of Oropher.

15. What are you currently writing, what's your latest work in progress?

Currently trying to finish "The Web of Darkness" and a short Halabor piece. I have about a dozen or so WIPs, some of which have been on the back burner for years. I'd like to finish them all; and I sorely miss the chance to discuss stuff with other people.

16. What is your favorite story you wrote? Why?

Honestly, I love them all. I couldn't pick out one for the life of me. Of course, "Forgotten Song", as the first one, will always have a special place in my heart, even if it's probably not my best.

17. What is your least favorite story you wrote? Why?

Heh! Legolas' torrid affair and wondrous adventures with the red-haired elleth of the tragic past. A classic Mary Sue of the worst sort. Thankfully, it was never written down, only thought out in great detail. It would have been in Hungarian anyway, as at that time I didn't speak English yet.

18. What do you hope to accomplish in your future in the fandom?

I no longer hope to have a future in this fandom. I just lack the special gene that makes an author popular. I've given up... writing is something I do because I can't not write, but that's the only reason I'm still going on.


This was a good meme, really. It made me rethink my feelings towards this fandom, and thus proved useful.

Comments

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I don't intend to be a groupie for some-one who is smug and complacent. I have read a couple by such authors and wondered what the damn fuss was about.

You and me, too. I generally review whenever I see something I like, regardless of the author, but I draw the line by such writers. Even if they do write fairly decent stuff. They've got enough sycophants on their own.

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

They tend to write very correctly, as if they had studied to learn how to write properly, but -- :|

When I spoke to my uncle once, who taught English almost 40 years, he said. ' I can teach you to write correctly. I can't teach you talent. '
I always remember that.

I've seen it a couple of times on forums on ff.net, with certain authors who seem to consider themselves the sole arbiters of writing and on judging excellent Tolkien fanfiction.
There's one story there now whose reviews are filled with sycophantic smarming. The author herself will nitpick spelling ' You put ' their ' instead of ' there ' and come down very hard on authors. So when I saw a story up by her after reading her forums I thought I would see what made her the judge of fanfic.
I can't say I hated it or thought it awful, it was just bland, with boring characters, and did not engage my interest.Of course, it would suit canatics and people who like het fluff. It was nothing, like any second hand book you pick up that some-one buys because they are on holiday and bored and then throws away. Apparently this is good writing? Inoffensive and dull as ditchwater?

There are a couple of others who people speak of in tones of awe, which I find amusing. It must be wonderful to believe oneself so elevated from the rest of us poor grunts. I have seen the writing and it's correct, yes, it's not something that's going to stay with me. I don't favorite those authors and I don' quite know how they became so ' famous '. Still, I suppose people take you at your own evaluation, and if you exude enough confidence, and have that much power of conviction, people believe it.

I don't even hold Tolkien in awe, I find his creation endlessly fascinating, deep and rich but I am not a canon purist and don't think every character or story he wrote was wonderful -- which is why I love fanfic.I am more likely to admire an author who is courageous enough to write outside canon while knowing it.

I'm very hard to please. I look for people who write with passion, and since I read mainly Elf-centric stories, authors who somehow inherently understand the nature of Elves. Sod the odd run-on sentence or wrongly placed word, there has to be a fire in the writing, and in this world of ennui, it's actually enormously hard to find.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Well, I am something of a canon purist (until it gets into the way of my storytelling, that is), but there are a few things in Tolkien's universe that I simply refuse to accept because they're too tightly bound to the Victorian thinking.

Besides, canon is a matter of interpretation. Especially by Tolkien who cheerfully contradicted himself several times. Take just the three different origins of Celeborn. For my part, I only consider binding canon what's written down in "The Hobbit" and LOTR. Those were the things Tolkien himself considered ready for publication. Period. Everything else is a matter of consensus - even the Silmarillion. Well, especially the Silmarillion, as Christopher Tolkien and his co-author (whose name I've conveniently forgotten) made drastic editing when they put the book together.

So, IMO, we're free to chose any of the different versions from any of the other books - or combine them to make our own. There's always a piece of "canon" we can refer to, aren't there? *g*

Similarly, I feel free to ignore the ideas in "Laws and Customs of Elves", because frankly, I find them ridiculous. Some canon purists are so terribly concerned about Tolkien's world being soiled by Teh Ebol Sexxxors that they'd rather sanftify all three kinslayings than admit that some Elves might not be all that monogamous. *snort*

>>I'm very hard to please.

Well, in that case I feel doubly honoured that you seem to like my stuff. Oh, and thanks for the review. It made my day.

>>Sod the odd run-on sentence or wrongly placed word, there has to be a fire in the writing, and in this world of ennui, it's actually enormously hard to find.

Agreed. I don't understand all that fuss about run-on sentences anyway. What would those "critics" do if they had to read German literature? German literary language is nothing else but run-on sentences; some of them fill a page and a half, and that's considered high art!

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

Similarly, I feel free to ignore the ideas in "Laws and Customs of Elves", because frankly, I find them ridiculous. Some canon purists are so terribly concerned about Tolkien's world being soiled by Teh Ebol Sexxxors that they'd rather sanftify all three kinslayings than admit that some Elves might not be all that monogamous. *snort*

I read them. I laughed.

There's a good book review, Elves in Anglo-Saxon England (http://www.forteantimes.com/reviews/books/549/elves_in_anglosaxon_england.html) ( I'd like to get the book ) of how Elves were viewed by our ancestors in northern Europe, and a very fascinating ( and long ) one translated from Russian The True Elves (http://www.shelltown.net/~dangweth/elfsaga.html).

Tolkien basically took the bits he liked from folklore, and ignore those that were perhaps to earthy or wild for his tastes, so yes, I don't see why we are not at liberty to decide which of his ideas we want to use.

There's always a piece of "canon" we can refer to, aren't there? *g* If you want it it is usually there somewhere. He was going to have Eol take Aredhel by force, meaning Elves could rape or perform noncon acts, and Fëanor supposedly lusted after Galadriel, which was incestuous. His discarded ideas, which would not have fitted with LACE are often more interesting. People cling to LACE as if it is the only canon in any of his works and get extremely venomous if people diverge from it. I thought Elves marrying young and losing their sex drive within a few hundred years was ridiculous. They were apparently interested in other things - anything except sex, in fact. To me, if you live that long you can become an artist of erotica, not asexual. XD

Oh, and thanks for the review. It made my day.

I never leave many on ff.net, ( Too much nasty drama on that site, it puts me off ) and there is not the review-response option as on other sites so I never know if any-one reads them, or cares. Thank-you. I was going to ask if you had touched on the earlier years of Oropher and the Greenwood, and then I saw that!

I've read wonderful authors write run on sentences, if they're correctly set out there's nothing wrong with them.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

It's not entirely Tolkien's fault, you know. It's hard to outgrow that kind of strong Catholic indoctrination he'd been raise in, even if one tries one's best to do so. And he never even tried. The idea never occurred to him, I think, in those times.

Still, it's sad that he grew so much more rigid in his late years. The other thing I really, really hate is the Awakening, where all Elves supposedly awakened with their spouses ready on their sides, so that free will wouldn't even have the chance to enter the scenery. Bah!

[lethe-lloyd.livejournal.com]

I'm glad he created - or rather utilized many od legends to create Middle-earth, but honestly now, ( after reading him for twenty-odd years ) I prefer good fanfic. I do know him - now I want to read deeper, or other interpretations. He set the stage - as he apparently wished to - there's room for others.

Yes, I read that not so long ago, about the Elves waking. he did have very idealistic views, which to me don't fit the Elves, it's like trying to straightjacket them.
But what about Thingol then, he couldn't have woken with his wife, as he married Melian, but apparently he was one of the first Elves.

I look at his work like a history, which is prone to the biases and mistakes and omissions of all recorded history.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Well, the various versions of Thingol (from Tinwe Linto on) predated those very straightlaced essays by decades, which proves my point that the Professor grew more rigid with advanced age.

History is a very good comparism (sp?), actually. Written by the winners and all that.